Wednesday, May 6, 2009

Science advised?

Watch the video above, and then read below.

I have just watched the first 6:38 minutes of Vertical Limit. I was thinking that I would do this in a sort of narrative, where I explain what's happening in the movie, and then pause when they get something wrong, but they got too many things wrong. Since I found 24 things, I think I'll just list them one by one.

1. In the first scene of the movie, there is an eagle swooping around near a mesa. During one scene you can clearly see the eagles legs dangling down towards the ground. Now I'm no ornithologist, but I'm almost totally certain birds don't fly like that. The scene looks CG , and I think they may have missed a bit. Any ornithologists can email me, and I'll get up the correct information.

2. During the entire scene, you can clearly hear their voices echoing as if off the walls of a canyon. This seems reasonable on the surface, they are near a rock wall...echoes! But in reality this is a little bit odd. If they were climbing the wall of a canyon, you could expect to hear echoes, but on the face of a mesa like they were climbing on, there would be nothing to have the echo bounce off of. Probably, it would have sounded more like if you were standing next to the second story of a house in the middle of a big open field. One slight echo, and nothing else.

3. Another problem in this scene is the way they used anchoring. The first instance of this is the crack which the girl has placed three cams in. The only serious problem I see is that it appears the crack is increasing in size as it goes down, which would seem to cause some problems in the event that any force should be applied down on it. Overall, I think this was a bad protection setup.

4. This is a minor nitpick, and may have just been something that they did off screen because it wasn't considered important to the plot, but the girl never once secures her carabiner locks, or checks them for having locked. Bad practice if nothing else, but they have bigger problems.

5. Shortly after the scene with the three cams in the wall, the young male character is seen jumping up to one high section of the wall. Apparently they didn't build the sound stage to the same dimensions as the rock wall they used for filming, because although in one scene the climber is shown feet dangling, in the next he is easily bracing against the wall below him. Just sloppy really.

6. This was another thing that struck me as quite odd. The girl is clearly using cams in a crack in front of her as an anchor for her and her brother and father. Although this in and of itself isn't very odd, everywhere else on the wall they used pitons, a sort of nail system where you pound an iron spike into the rock that has a hole to put a carabiner through. These are effective, if usually illegal. I'm not really clear on why you'd use a more secure type of anchor everywhere but your main anchor.

7. If you carefully watch the girl on belay (belaying explained in number 18), you can see that she isn't backing up her automatic locking belay system with a strictly physical system. This is also a bad practice. Should the boy fall, and the automatic stop fail, he would likely plummet to his doom, almost a minute earlier than he would otherwise.

8. Just before the real insanity starts, there is a pack dropped from high above them. The pack falls past them with the rope trailing. Depending on what was in the pack, this might actually be reasonable. Climbing rope is fairly dense stuff, and would tend towards overcoming air resistance quite well, but the pack could be full of water, or cooking supplies, or lead weights. The bigger problem is that the pack seemed to be falling at terminal velocity. Although it's possible that it would have reached its max velocity in the time shown, it's very unlikely.

9. Right here is the first time that the physics of the situation gets really out of hand. One of the inexperienced climbers high up on the rock face slips and falls off of the rock. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal, but his piton anchor fails as he falls. But there's the problem: the anchor fails before he even puts weight on it. In a real situation, if his protection were to fail, it would be most likely to do so when he was at the bottom of his fall, where the tension was at the greatest, not when he was at the top, where there would have been no tension on it at all.

10. The next problem is another problem with anchor tension, but this time on the opposite side of the swing. The climber falls down, but has a second anchor which stops him from immediately falling to his doom. Since it's tied to the wall and to the second climber, he swings in a long arc, almost another climber further down the wall, and then swings back up to the level of his climbing partner. This is the point when the anchor fails. Not when it was under the maximum strain at the bottom of his arc, but afterward when it was once again under almost no stress at all. It's very odd that these climbing protections keep failing when there's no strain and holding when the strain is greatest.

11. One thing that I found a bit odd was the relative speeds of the falls, as mentioned earlier when a pack was dropped from the people higher up on the wall. The pack, when it falls past them, appears to be roughly in the steady state, with no acceleration, and the fall is quite fast. The two people who fall later however take almost 3 seconds to reach the height of the climber closest to them. Either the people are much less dense than the pack, which is possible if the pack was filled with lead weights as discussed, but not likely. Why they didn't just film packs being dropped off of a cliff, I have no idea.

12. Okay, this isn't a problem in and of itself, but it sets us up for some of the later problems. When the people fall off of the wall, they are accelerating at the earth standard of 9.8 m/s^2. With this acceleration, it takes them 3 seconds from when the 2 of them are off the wall, to when the father is pulled off of the wall. After 3 seconds of acceleration, they would be going 29.4 meters per second, or about 65 miles per hour. This certainly makes it reasonable that the lower climbers and most of their anchors would be pulled off of the wall, a person going 65 miles per hour has quite a bit off momentum!

13. At this point we see the falling climbers pull two more climbers and two more anchors off of the wall. This is reasonable since they are carrying quite a bit of momentum, but their fall is arrested by reaching the end of the trio of experienced climbers' ropes, and being wrapped around the father. How, though, did the last set of anchors hold when the first two were ripped out of the wall without even slowing them down? The breaking strain of a piton is on the order of 15000 newtons. Since these snapped quite fast, we can assume that these had much higher forces applied to them, but the cams which she used for the final anchor which held have an approximate breaking strain of 14000 newtons. If you assume that the climbers were in free fall until the end of the rope. reaching a speed of 50 meters per second, and that the rope stopped the fall in about .2 seconds, there should have been upwards of 40000 newtons being applied to the cams just from the first two climbers, not including the father and son, which would have broken them handily. This is the fist point at which everyone would have died.

14. The next problem we have is the problem of the father stopping the falling climbers with his midsection. Using the numbers from above, there were 40000 newtons being applied to his midsection. If we assume a climbing rope has a 1cm contact width and that his waist was about 45cm of contact length, he must have had a pressure on his waist of approximately 8 million pascals. Since the breaking pressure of muscle is on the order of 500,000 pascals, it's safe to assume that the rope would have, if not cutting him in half, at least have delivered fatal injuries to his internal organs and spine, making falling down a bit of a moot point.

15. After the impossible stop that would have ended all their lives, and the force which almost certainly would have killed the father, there was yet another force which would have ruined his, otherwise, perfectly good day. After several seconds of being calm and trying to keep things together, the father slips and the rope which was around his waist slips past his neck and off of him, killing the first two climbers. Your neck is not a free interface though, according to the internet, it takes on the order of several hundred newtons to break someones neck, and the climbers appeared to weight more like 1000 newtons. As the rope slid past his neck, he would have, at the very least, had his trachea crushed, making it impossible for him to talk or breath, and at the worst a broken neck. So, the father is now dead 3 times over.

16. After the people fall, there is some discussion about how the anchors don't have the strength to hold all three of them. This is odd as they survived a 40000+ newton fall, but now only have to hold something on the order of 1200 newtons static. Also, since these anchors are specifically designed to hold up to these forces it is unlikely that even one would fail after the initial fall, let alone all three that she placed.

17. Something interesting I noticed was the fact that they were hanging very far away from the wall. The girl was trying to reanchor them in, but couldn't reach. There was a shot earlier though that clearly showed the section of rock which was underneath them had a gentle slope, which is kind of the opposite of an overhang. If anything they should have just hit the wall quite hard.

18. Now that they are hanging free though, we see another large physics blunder. The climbing system basically works by having one person on belay, who serves as an anchor, and another person climbing. Ideally there is a top anchor which has a pulley so that if one person falls the other person's weight is used to stop them. Since there is a pulley at the top, a much lighter person could belay for someone. However, in this scene we see the small girl being a stable counter for 2 grown men. Even with the pulley, she wouldn't have enough weight to balance it, and should have been pulled up to the top of the belay system instead of hanging stably.

19. The next blunder is that after the girl is unable to reach the wall to anchor them back in, the father tells his son to cut to rope, thus reducing the weight and saving his kids. The son pulls out a strait bladed knife to try to cut the rope. This would be fine if he had quite a while, but this type of knife was not designed to cut ropes. It would have taken quite a while for him to cut it even after he decided too. Much more likely for a climber to be carrying would be a serrated edge, which would be much faster at cutting that type of tensioned rope. I'll post a video about this later!

20. The next problem would have occurred just after cutting the rope. Although it may not seem like it at casual glance, climbing rope is actually a very stiff spring. This give is what allows you to fall any distance without breaking anything when the rope stops you. If it wasn't springy like this, the stop from the rope would be just as bad as hitting the ground from the same height you fell from. Now the problem is what happens when you partially unload a spring? The spring begins to bounce. The oscillations will be quickly damped in a climbing rope, but they will be there, and the bounce would have easily been enough to pull the last anchor from the wall, in fact, much more likely to do it than the weight of a third person.

21. This last one is a bit speculative, and they likely did it to keep the rating down, but the end of this 6:38 seconds of pain is a shot of the fathers body hitting the ground. When a person would hit the ground at the speed he hit, landing on solid rock, it's more likely that he would splash than bounce. A person's body simply couldn't maintain structural integrity if it hit like that. Would have been quite gross, I suspect.

Okay, that's all I could find in the first 6:38 minutes of Vertical Limit. I guess it was actually quite a bit. Between all the breaking and falling, that was really quite bad. Now, I suspect you'll have noticed I didn't really suggest any changes, that's because this scene was a total loss from go, more or less. A much better scene might have been to film a real climbing scene with real climbers where a reasonable single piece of equipment fails(say a carabiner) for the kid to blame himself for. At least you wouldn't have to violate the laws of physics.

P.S. The new swish logo courtesy of Roy! Go check out our blog Darktaco.



    Feet up during flight. Also, it flew like it didn't have any joints in the wings. As an animator, I cry.

  2. Ok, so I know how they did the dad landing on the ground. You'll note there's an uncharacteristic amount of dusty sand piled there before he comes in from above camera. Pile that on top of a piece of plywood or something, which is itself on even a thin pad, and a stunt man can easily take that fall from the six feet it would be to be above and out of the shot. That also explains why he seems to kick his leg out flat during the landing: the stunt man wasn't in the flat position he intended. The dust kicked up from the guy landing in the sand and dirt helps cover up the fact that this guy is perfectly safe. If you watch carefully, he's landing with his feet and tailbone first, and then laying flat. I bet he didn't even knock the wind out of himself.

    From the moment you can see the stunt man's shadow on the left to the point he hits the dirt is about a half second or so. That means the guy was in his first second of free-fall. Which means he jumped from a platform just out of view of this ground-level, narrow angle shot.


  3. شركة نظافة خزانات بالمدينة المنورة
    لدينا الحل الامثل بتنظيف الخزانات نتبع اساليب اكثر دقة من خلال نظام حديث يجعل من تنظيف الخزانات نتائج اسرع وافضل وتكاليف مناسبة لكل فئة من الاشخاص، شركة تنظيف خزانات بالمدينة المنورة، مميزات التعامل معنا كثيرة حيث تقديم عروض دائمة على تنظيف الخزانات، خدمة عملاء سريعة لسهولة تواصلنا مع عملائنا، امكانيات عالية الدقة في تنظيف الخزانات بطريقة مثالية وفعالة في تطهير الخزانات وفريق مختص بتنظيف الخزانات مدرب دائمًا على كل حديث في مجال تنظيف الخزانات واسعار رخيصة.


  4. شركة مكافحة البق بالمدينة المنورة
    إن شركة مكافحة البق بالمدينة المنورة توفر الإبادة الجماعية للبق فيقوم الفنيين بالبحث و تفتيش المراتب و القيام بأعمال الرش بمبيدات مصرح بها من وزارة الصحة و بالطرق الآمنة للحفاظ على سلامة المواطنين دون الحاجه للخروج فتتميز بعدم وجود رائحة ليتناسب مع ذوي الحساسية والحيوانات الأليفة وذلك لمصداقيتها في إبادة البق لطلب الخدمة يرجى الإتصال عبر الأرقام التالية وسيصلك فريق مجهز بالكامل في الحال .

  5. Part-time Maid Ads

    Specialist Domestic Washing Companies during Oxfordshire. They have come back business because their very own consumers are pleased with the solutions rendered. In the same way, some bring their particular own cleaning firms other people want homeowners to acquire a host to products for his or her individual use. We had a housecleaner for several years. One of many visitors compared housekeepers to health care professionals. To the kinds of angieslist users declaring $20-$30+ /hr for rug cleaning solutions are also serious please indulge my thoughts. Other expenses will certainly be expense of updating apparatus, insurance, safeguard warrant and training, bonding, washing chemical compounds, safeness gloves and washing cloths and the cleansing and blow blow drying of these, a nominal of 1 load daily.ارخص شركة تنظيف بالرياض
    خدمات غسيل البيوت فى الرياض
    شركة تنظيف كنب بالرياض

    You could be going to not get capable of acquire the same outcomes while employing cleaning products you can actually get to get. As a new business owner, and professional house cleaner (worked in business over 12 years), I take great pride in my work and giving my clients the results they are looking for and I expect to be paid WHAT I AM WORTH for providing exceptional support. I cannot adhere to cleaning person at home to make certain that no "cross contamination" is occurring. I essentially just acquired my dwelling carefully cleaned which includes a business and I am ecstatic.
    افضل شركة تنظيف خزانات بالرياض
    افضل شركة تنظيف فلل بالرياض
    شركة تنظيف مكيفات بالرياض

    Our home clean programmes are tailor built to give you a hassle free experience with Aboutime, combined with unparalleled unchallenged, unsurpassed results. P. S. Only persons of category should essentially be pondering the costs of cleaners. Sonya, with her a long time of knowledge, and her hand-picked staff can be acquired to obtain that excellent glow to your home. And Penny they function hard all day some day's we work strait 10-12 hours, and in the event that I hear or see a comment like yours I wish I could pay them even more.شركة تنظيف سجاد بالرياض
    شركة جلي بلاط رخام بالرياض

    Provide an suffering sister and also my individual limitations is certainly taking uf time however I'm functioning on this. I'll maintain you submitted. Additionally a substantial number of men and women demonstrate themselves to theft and various chicanery because if you seek the products and services of a cleaner at doze 1 hour for several time that cleaner gets effects hard as hell, and can be usually therefore forced to keep and head to another customers residence to make an excellent days income. I essentially think these females maintenance shouldn't compromise about the purchase price.شركة الرحمة

    افضل شركة لرش المبيدات بالرياض

  6. يتم استخدامها في مجموعة متنوعة من الصناعات من تغليف الأطعمة والمشروبات إلى المعدات الطبية ومن أكثر أنواع ماكينات تصنيع البلاستيك شيوعًا هي ماكينات القولبة بالحقن